Welcome back to the continuing avalanche, O Rereaders of the Tor! It’s just getting crazier by the chapter; this week, we take a few steps forward on multiple fronts (nine-count-’em-nine POV characters!) and have some awesome mental images to swoon over. (Okay, maybe that’s just me?) Anyway. Onward!
First, please welcome Paige back to the reread this week! Lyndsey is called away for personal reasons, and Paige has generously stepped in at the last minute to keep my brain from exploding. (A: Or at least… trying…) (P: Nah, I wouldn’t let you explode.) (A: I knew you’d take care of me!)
Reminder: We’re working hard to focus on the events of just this chapter, which are a gracious plenty to work with, but we may reference anything up to the end of the book in the discussion. If you haven’t finished it by now, you really have no excuse. (A: Also, if you’ve read this far and haven’t just kept going, I… I don’t know what to think. You can stop in the middle of an avalanche? Are you human?) (P: Only a monster would do such a thing. It is known.)
In this week’s reread we also reference a few minor details from Warbreaker in the Cosmere Connections section, so if you haven’t read it, best to give that section a pass. But again, if you haven’t read Warbreaker by now, you really, really should fix that. (P: I have spoken. Well… Alice has spoken, but we are one voice today!)
It’s getting harder and harder to keep any kind of cohesion in a reread when we get to this kind of POV-jumping. A few paragraphs here, a few there, overlapping, touching on different aspects… My apologies up front if it doesn’t seem to hang together; we can but do our best and hope to start some discussion! I do hope you all actually go read the chapter, because that’s the only way this shindig is going to make sense.
Chapter Recap
WHO: Dalinar, Adolin, Shallan, Lift, Szeth, Kaladin, Navani, Shalash, Renarin
A: Good grief. Who don’t we hear from in this chapter? Jasnah, Venli, and Bridge Four?
P: We do see Jasnah, though she doesn’t speak. Also Fen. Taln. The gang’s all here!
WHERE: Thaylen City, both realms
WHEN: 1174.2.8.1
Dalinar sends Lift to retrieve the King’s Drop, then confronts Odium, who has just sent his two thunderclasts to wreak havoc.
Adolin’s attempt to distract the Fused turns deadly and he is badly wounded, but his deadeye spren attacks the Fused, allowing him to escape the vicinity. Meanwhile, Shallan has failed to gain the cooperation of the Oathgate spren, and the second Fused is about to kill her when she unexpectedly manifests a wall between them; she runs to Adolin, and they jump into the bead-ocean together.
Lift chases Fused carrying the ruby, but the Fused is much better with the Surge (P: Ahem, the awesome.) than she is. Szeth and Nale hover above the battlefield, discussing the third Skybreaker Ideal.
Kaladin, having fallen into the beads in the previous chapter, is pulled out onto the land by Sylphrena, and the team regathers. Realizing there’s no chance to get through the Oathgate, Adolin prepares for a last stand to give the others a chance to get away, while Kaladin recognizes the need to say the Fourth Ideal.
Dalinar challenges Odium to a duel of champions. Lift, unable to catch the Fused with the ruby, is about to be crushed by a thunderclast when Szeth destroys it and joins her quest. Navani, intending to go to Dalinar, is captured with Fen and Kmakl by Sadeas soldiers. Ash destroys some artwork, and then finds Taln. Renarin sees fearful visions, and Odium claims Dalinar as his champion.
United Front
Title: Champion With Nine Shadows
A: This is one of those rare chapter titles that actually comes from a different chapter, in this case Chapter 24:
How far would he go for the good of all Roshar? How far would he go to prepare them for the coming of that enemy? A champion with nine shadows.
I will unite instead of divide.
A: As you may have noticed by now, I’m fascinated by the chapter titles. I love the way the Stormlight Archive uses quotations as titles, and in Oathbringer I loved the chance to suggest titles for each chapter. But my favorites, like this one, usually turn out to be the rare ones that call back to a moment we had no idea was going to turn out like it did. In the quoted scene, Dalinar was just beginning to form the coalition, and was troubled to realize that Taravangian was joining him out of fear rather than because he actually believed in an alliance. Now it’s come around in a way no one could have anticipated then: Taravangian has betrayed Dalinar, as he’d planned all along; the coalition has collapsed; and Dalinar himself is set up as Odium’s champion.
P: Choosing chapter titles was one of my favorite parts of the Oathbringer beta read. I think our team (especially you and I, Alice!) did a fantastic job with suggestions, and Team Dragonsteel was excellent as always.
Heralds: Vedel, Shalash, Battar, Kalak
Vedel: the Healer, patron of Edgedancers, Loving and Healing
Shalash: Herald of Beauty, the Artist, patron of Lightweavers, Creative and Honest
Battar: the Counsellor, patron of Elsecallers, Wise and Careful
Kalak: the Maker, patron of Willshapers, Resolute and Builder
A: We see our favorite Edgedancer in action, so that probably accounts for Vedel. Shalash herself is plenty to account for Shalash, but Shallan does some pretty creative things as well. I’m a little less clear on Battar and Kalak, so I’m going to put that mostly down to a number of people—especially Dalinar—trying really, really hard to be wise and careful, and also a lot of people resolutely refusing to give up, even in the face of overwhelming odds.
P: I feel that Szeth shows wisdom regarding swearing his Third Ideal; once he decides, he takes immediate and resolute action. Awesome landing, too. 10/10!
Also, Jasnah makes an appearance, which could be why we see Battar.
Icon: Double Eye of the Almighty—we’re gonna get lots of viewpoints again. Surprise!
Epigraph:
Beware the otherworlders. The traitors. Those with tongues of sweetness, but with minds that lust for blood. Do not take them in. Do not give them succor. Well were they named Voidbringers, for they brought the void. The empty pit that sucks in emotion. A new god. Their god.
—From the Eila Stele
A: As before, we talked about this; there’s very little new to add, and we don’t want to risk Rhythm of War spoilers, so we’ll just leave it there. Feel free to discuss in the comments, though!
P: Look forward to seeing your thoughts, Sanderfans!
Buy the Book
Rhythm of War
Stories & Songs
“Tell Yushah I want her to stay out here and guard the prison. Kai-garnis did well destroying the wall; tell her to return to the city and climb toward the Oathgate. If the Tisark can’t secure it, she is to destroy the device and recover its gemstones. We can rebuild it as long as the spren aren’t compromised.”
A: Three completely unknown names just casually dropped in here… Yushah and Kai-garnis appear to be the spren or Fused (do we know which?) who take enormous stone bodies to become thunderclasts. When he says that Yushah is supposed to guard the prison… I’m not sure, but I think he must mean the King’s Drop. Last week, there was a good bit of discussion in the comments about how seeing the future changes the future, and I’m now convinced that the purpose of wrecking the Gemstone Reserve was to grab the Drop and keep it from being used to imprison Nergaoul. Ironic, isn’t it—if he hadn’t done that, there’s almost no way Dalinar would have known about the thing, much less been able to get hold of it and use it. I guess Odium didn’t look into enough mirrors!
P: I agree that the spren/Fused Thunderclast sent to guard the prison is guarding the Drop. He goes after Lift, who is chasing down the Fused who has it.
A: I’m totally confused about the Tisark, though. Who are they? It seems fairly obvious that he’s referring to someone expected to take control over the Thaylen Oathgate, but is it the ones in Shadesmar? The ones attacking in Urithiru? The ones in the air above Thaylen City, preparing to stop anyone coming or going via the Oathgate? Does it matter? Probably not, at this point; whichever group it is, they’re supposed to control the Oathgate or destroy it. I’m fascinated by that reference to its gemstones and the spren, which seem to be connected.
P: Yeah, the Tisark are whoever is guarding the Oathgate. The thunderclast is to destroy it if they’re unable to secure it. Thank Cultivation, that probably won’t happen!
The other shook her head, and Adolin could almost interpret her answer. We tried stabbing each one. They keep mixing about, so it’s hard to keep track.
Instead, the female took out a knife and cut her hand, then flung it toward the illusions. Orange blood fell through the illusions, leaving no stain, but splattered against Adolin’s cheek.
A: Oops.
P: That’s one word.
How could Dalinar fight this thing, who thought of every possibility, who planned for every outcome? How could he face something so vast, so incredible? …
He would break, go insane, if he tried to comprehend this being. And somehow he had to defeat it?
…
Honor had been slain resisting this thing.
A: …Yeah. Take on Lucifer himself, mano a mano? Not likely. Champions it is, then.
P: This is really a lose-lose for Dalinar. At least from where Odium is standing.
“Your freedom if you win, our lives if humans win.”
“Be careful what you request, Dalinar Kholin. As Bondsmith, you can offer this deal. But is this truly what you wish of me?”
A: And I mean… how do you know? In the face of something this far beyond you, how do you know whether a contest of champions is even remotely a good idea? How do you have any idea what you’re getting into? And, of course, he doesn’t, but he has to try anyway.
P: He has to try, absolutely. It’s that or Thaylen City falls, the Oathgate falls, Urithiru falls. It’s just him, facing down these armies alone. Oh, and a slick little radiant sliding about somewhere, trying to steal a ginormous gem. All he has is this Hail Mary pass that the Stormfather mentions, and he’s launching that ball into the air because there’s nothing else to be done with Amaram’s army taken by the Thrill.
She wasn’t supposed to get any older; the Nightwatcher had promised her she wouldn’t.
The Nightwatcher had lied.
A: Would I sound like a broken record if I reiterated one more time that I really want to know what was actually said in that exchange, versus what Lift thought she heard? This is yet another case where I’m pretty sure there’s a whole lot more to the story!
P: Lift is nothing if not an unreliable narrator. We NEED to know what happened with the Nightwatcher… and Cultivation, because she totally took a personal interest in our littlest Knight.
A: Theories abound, of course; by now, I just want to know. And of course, Lift’s book is a good ten years away.
P: *quiet sobbing*
Relationships & Romances
Navani scrambled across the top of the wall, alone except for crushed corpses.
Dalinar, don’t you dare become a martyr, she thought, reaching the stairwell.
…
What was he thinking? Facing an entire army on his own? He wasn’t a young man in his prime, outfitted in Shardplate!
P: I can’t imagine what Navani feels, seeing Dalinar standing down there, alone before Amaram’s army. After all of the time lost between them, she finally gets him, and then she sees him there and knows that she’s going to lose him because he can’t survive. How could he? But what does she do? She tries to get to him. I adore this, and I adore her.
A: What made me giggle (despite the seriousness) was that last part of the quote. Because when he was a young man, outfitted in Shardplate, he could face an entire army on his own?
…Come to think of it, yeah. Maybe not an army this big, but a smaller one…
P: Yeah, that was my thought. The Blackthorn would have stood out there bellowing at them to storming try him.
A: Welp. There’s an image…
There she found him, sitting alone in the dim light, staring ahead sightlessly. […] A king, for all the fact that he’d never once worn a crown. He was the one of the ten who was never supposed to have borne their burden.
And he’d borne it the longest, anyway.
“Taln,” she whispered.
P: Ash wanders the land, stealing and defacing any art of herself she can find. She’s so full of self-loathing, so marinated in guilt… and then Mraize finds her. He tells her of Taln and she goes to find him. How Mraize knows where Taln would be and when is anyone’s guess (spies, spies, everywhere spies), but I’d sure like to know what his motivations are.
A: These two… They could fit just as easily in Stories & Songs, or Bruised & Broken, but I like keeping them here in Relationships. We don’t know exactly what their relationship was, of course, but being bound together for so many millennia would have a profound impact anyway.
We’ll find out a little more about Ash’s destructive tendencies later, but the thing that leapt out at me here was that line about “He was the one of the ten who was never supposed to have borne their burden.” How did that happen? It occurs to me that he may have stepped up to take the place of someone who couldn’t bring themselves to go through with it—and he may have done it for Shalash’s sake. That would be a tragic romance for the ages!
P: I’m jonesing for some backstory, too! I also love this because it seems as if Ash is the only remaining Herald who cares, or even spares a thought, about what they did to Taln by leaving him there to hold back the desolation alone.
Bruised & Broken
A: I know this isn’t really the right place for this, but I can’t find a better one. And it does involve serious damage…
Adolin yanked out his belt knife, then forced himself to his feet, unsteady. The Fused lowered its lance to a two-handed, underarm grip, then waited.
Knife against spear. … He tried to dredge up Zahel’s lessons, remembering days on the practice yard running this exact exchange. …
Zahel whispered to him. … Pull yourself close enough to ram the knife into the enemy’s neck.
Right. He could do that.
He’d “died” seven times out of ten doing it against Zahel, of course.
Winds bless you anyway, you old axehound, he thought.
A: So obviously, I love his recollection of lessons with Zahel, and once again the value of practicing things you would theoretically never have to do. (See: Jakamav laughing at the idea that a Shardbearer should ever have to bother with knives.) It’s just a crying shame that, as good as Zahel is, he can’t fly—so the Fused have yet another advantage that Adolin can’t counter.
P: Adolin would have pulled off the move had he not been fighting a Surgebinder. Zahel likely never considered teaching how to fight one. Why learn to fight something that’s extinct?
Adolin stumbled, trying to reassess. The Fused idly brought the lance back around, then fluidly rammed it right through Adolin’s stomach.
A: This one… It’s made worse by the casual way it’s handled, both by the Fused and by the text. Such a shock.
P: This was a total face-clutching moment for me. I think I audibly gasped during the beta read.
A: Right? They’re doing the dance, fighting the fight, and then it’s just… right through your body, done. WUT?
P: After Elhokar was so suddenly dispatched, I was terrified for Adolin. I was begging for his life as I read.
He wrenched his eyes away from the glass pane showing himself and Jasnah, turning toward one even worse. In it, his father knelt before a god of gold and white.
“No, Father,” Renarin whispered. “Please. Not that. Don’t do it…”
He will not be resisted, Glys said. My sorrow, Renarin. I will give you my sorrow.
P: Renarin, waiting for his own death and pleading for his father to not give in to Odium is utterly heart-wrenching. If your heart wasn’t wrenched, well, I don’t know if we can be friends anymore.
This scene really is important, though, and not only because Jasnah thinks she’s sneaking up on Renarin, but because for all we know, this is the future. Renarin is seeing what’s going to happen with Dalinar at any moment. It’s short, but it’s such an intense POV because right in the middle of the Sanderlanche, you have a Truthwatcher (yeah, yeah, corrupted spren, blah, blah, listen. to. me.) who sees what’s about to happen, and it really does seem as if all hope is lost. Even Renarin, who knows it’s about to happen, begs his father not to do it. Heart. Wrenched. Ow.
A: I’m with you 100% on this. He knows full well that he does see the future correctly—the Everstorm was enough to prove that, whatever the source. I found it excruciating that even though he feared what he could do, he still learned to read and write so that he could understand the words his visions were showing him. Now, I can’t help getting the impression that if he could pick between what he saw concerning himself, and what he saw concerning Dalinar, he’d gladly take his own fate if it meant Dalinar could be protected.
P: Doubtless, he would. That boy was always too good for his father. And I like Dalinar.
Diagrams & Dastardly Designs
“A contest of champions. For the fate of Roshar.”
“Very well,” Odium said, then sighed softly. “I agree.”
“That easily?”
“Oh, I assure you. This won’t be easy.”
Odium raised his eyebrows in an open, inviting way. A concerned expression. “I have chosen my champion already. I’ve been preparing him for a long, long, time.”
“Amaram?”
“Him? A passionate man, yes, but hardly suited to this task. No. I need someone who dominates a battlefield like the sun dominates the sky.”
P: This, of course, is the moment when many readers feel that their ‘Dalinar is Odium’s champion’ theories would be realized. Indeed, when reading through his flashback sequences, one can certainly see Odium’s influence.
A: Oh, absolutely. To realize that the whole thing was Odium grooming him for this moment, though, is both shocking and infuriating. All that time, he was being manipulated into this. (Which, of course, makes that other coming scene much more powerful and profound, but we’ll get there soon enough.)
The Thrill suddenly returned to Dalinar. The red mist—which had been fading—roared back to life. Images filled his mind. Memories of his youth spent fighting.
“I need someone stronger than Amaram,” Odium whispered.
“No.”
“A man who will win, no matter the cost.”
The Thrill overwhelmed Dalinar, choking him.
“A man who has served me all his life. A man I trust. I believe I warned you that I knew you’d make the right decision. And now here we are.”
“No.”
“Take a deep breath, my friend,” Odium whispered. “I’m afraid that this will hurt.”
P: Here we go, you think. This is the moment. Dalinar will bow to Odium, as Renarin sees in his vision in Pailiah’s temple. He’ll turn, and he’ll destroy the Alethi and Thaylen armies. You know it! You knew it all along, didn’t you? Dalinar is weak, he’s a murderer. Killed his own wife. This is all he was ever good for… betrayal and death. Right?
Squires & Sidekicks
[Amaram’s army] kept uneven ranks, snarling, eyes red. More telling, they ignored the wealth at their feet. A field of spheres and gemstones—all dun—that had been thrown out onto this plain by the thunderclast that destroyed the reserve.
A: I do think it’s worth noting this: A bunch of Sadeas soldiers, not exactly known for their discipline, are ignoring more wealth than they’ve ever seen in their lives. The Thrill is so strong that all they want is to fight.
P: And it’s not as if their personalities have been wiped out. They really do just want to fight more than anything. Just like what happened during the civil war in Jah Keved. You see it in the soldier that captures Navani: He’s coherent, he knows who’s who and where he is and what he’s doing. These guys are scary.
Tight Butts and Coconuts
A: I could just about put everything Lift does into this section this week. She provides notes of laugh-out-loud humor in an otherwise dark and intense chapter. I adore this child.
P: Who’s stopping us? All Lift, all day, boys and girls!
“So…” a sudden voice said from his right. “What’s the plan?”
P: There are a lot of moments in the books thus far that make my heart soar and my soul sing; Lift stepping up beside Dalinar as he stands alone, facing an army of Thrill-enhanced soldiers, and asking what they’re gonna do, is absolutely one of them.
A: Especially since she was supposed to be gone with the Azish fleet!
P: Her decision to stay and help was one thing. But the way she walks out of the city, likely passing through the advance guard of Amaram’s soldiers, to stand alone beside Dalinar, is simply incredible.
Lift may seem simple, but she’s really not. She’s fully aware of the odds involved with the two of them alone facing an army. Armies. But she’s willing to let Dalinar point her where he needs her and be and to see the task done. She’s just so, well… awesome.
You knew it was coming.
“What’s wrong with your army?”
“They’re his now.”
“Did you forget to feed them?”
P: I love that Lift is so centered on food. While it would be nice to not require Stormlight, it can’t be easy going to battle with no books and naught but some jerky in your pocket.
A: Heh. It occurs to me that Dalinar doesn’t yet know about Lift making Stormlight from food. He doesn’t even get the joke—at least not in its full glory.
“Were you … thinkin’ you’d fight them all on your own?” Lift said. “With a book?”
P: While Dalinar may think Lift is touched when the tiny Edgedancer (don’t act like you haven’t thought it!) steps up beside him, it’s nothing compared to what she must be thinking when he says he’s going to fight with a book. I can see the ‘okay, crazy guy’ look on her face!
A: And I’m just cracking up at her view of the world. Hey, everyone’s crazy in their own way, so fighting with a book? Okay, if that’s your thing, you do it.
She shook her head. “Sure, all right. Why not? What do you want me to do?”
…
“Do you have a weapon?” he asked.
“Nope. Can’t read.”
A: I could go on all day, quoting Lift and laughing my head off! But I’ll stop there, for a bit. “Nope. Can’t read” has to be one of my favorite Lift moments ever, though. Especially the way Dalinar has to do a double-take on her response.
P: A lot of people double-take Lift, but Dalinar’s reaction here is golden.
“Can you steal it back?”
“Sure. Easy.”
…
“Easy? I think you might find—”
“Relax, grandpa. Steal the rock. I can do that.”
A: I mean… if you want something stolen, you’ve come to the right girl. She’s the best at the job. Grandpa.
P: Steal something? Easy peasy for this little thief. Right?
“It’s just us two, then?”
“Yes.”
“Right. Good luck with the army.”
A: So nonchalant, our Lift. Heh. I’ll take care of the super-powerful dude with the special rock, you’ll take care of the army, and we’ll be back for breakfast. Smoke me a kipper.
P: Have a few pancakes.
Weighty Words
She’d tried pleading, cajoling, yelling, and even Lightweaving. It was no use. She had failed. …
A: Poor Shallan—with the whole team depending on her to open the gate, it was just not possible. What an awful feeling. And then, with her illusions on the bridge already having failed, one of those Fused is coming for her. No Shardblade, no Stormlight, no defense.
P: This scene is so fraught with tension. Everyone is running out of resources, running out of options, outnumbered by Fused. This is such an excellent build-up.
And yet in that moment… Shallan felt something. Pattern, or something like him, just beyond her mental reach. On the other side, and if she could just tug on it, feed it …
She screamed as Stormlight flowed through her, raging in her veins, reaching toward something in her pocket.
A wall appeared in front of her.
Shallan gasped. A sickening smack from the other side of the wall indicated that the Fused had collided with it.
…
What she’d done felt like Soulcasting, yet different.
A: In a moment, Pattern will explain to her that she manifested a physical-world wall in Shadesmar, which is pretty cool in itself. Also, that the Fused smashed into it—and hopefully gave itself a concussion! The thing that struck me just now, though, is… where did she get that Stormlight? Did she just reach into the Spiritual Realm and get Stormlight to manifest this wall? Because if so, that’s… astonishing.
P: This was really interesting, that she felt something like Pattern just out of reach. If only they hadn’t been on the verge of utter defeat, she could have played around with it a bit. Perhaps she’ll revisit this after the events of Oathbringer.
Going about on your knees didn’t look as deevy as standing up—but when she tried being awesome while standing, she usually ended up crashed against a rock with her butt in the air.
A: Heh. We saw that one in Edgedancer. It reminds me of me trying to skate… except that as a little kid, I was a decent ice-skater. Not anything great, but at least I could get around on the ice without falling over. Roller skates were always another matter.
P: I was a passable roller skater but couldn’t stay vertical on ice skates. Ice skaters truly are Edgedancers.
Wyndle sighed but obeyed, streaking off after the Voidbringer. Lift followed, paddling on her knees, feeling like a pig trying to imitate a professional dancer.
P: I think this is rather an impressive metaphor. Lift is a clever little one.
“Yes,” Nin said, nodding, hands clasped behind his back. “Our minds are fallible. This is why we must pick something external to follow. Only in strict adherence to a code can we approximate justice.”
A: I have mixed feelings about this. Adherence to a code can be much better than just making it up as you go, but it depends a lot on the code you pick—and you have to use your own mind to pick that code. So you’re still back to individual responsibility.
P: I definitely think the way the Skybreakers swear to a code to be… off. It’s definitely down to individual choice and responsibility, which is why I love Szeth’s choice.
“When I say the Third Ideal, can I choose a person as the thing I obey? Instead of the law?”
“Yes. Some of the Skybreakers have chosen to follow me, and I suspect that will make the transition to obeying the Dawnsingers easier for them. I would not suggest it. I feel that … I am … am getting worse…”
…
“Your agony is because you did not follow something unchanging and pure. You picked men instead of an ideal.”
“Or,” Szeth said, “perhaps I was simply forced to follow the wrong men.”
A: For reference, the Third Ideal has the Skybreaker swearing to dedicate himself to “a greater truth—a code to follow.”
This conversation between Nale and Szeth just makes me snort. Clearly, Nale is assuming that Szeth intends to follow him, because of course who else is there? In case you hadn’t noticed yet, I really don’t like Nale very much. The best thing about him is that he has finally accepted that he’s not reliable any more. And I guess I have to give him some credit for at least half-heartedly encouraging Szeth not to follow him. On the bright side, Szeth is thinking of someone else entirely.
P: Nale’s arrogance has bothered me from the get-go. While it’s awesome that he’s found all of these Radiants and trained them, he also murdered countless more. That alone is unforgivable, in my opinion, as is turning away from the humans to serve the Fused.
And he’s right, he is getting worse, so it’s a good thing that Szeth has his eye on someone else.
A: Then there’s Kaladin…
I can’t fail him!
Kaladin looked over his shoulder toward Syl, who held him lightly by the arm.
She nodded. “The Words, Kaladin.”
A: This would seem to indicate that speaking the Fourth Ideal would give Kaladin something that would enable him to protect their team from the six Fused flying toward them with death in their hands. Aside from his Plate (and would he even get that in Shadesmar?), it seems likely from past experience that he would get an infusion of Stormlight directly from the Spiritual realm. I’m still not sure what good that would do; could he actually kill or disable six Fused? And if so, would they have any way back to the Physical realm, even then? Still, leveling up right now would seem to be a good idea.
P: It’s an interesting question, whether live Plate will show up in Shadesmar. I would think no, since Blades manifest as the spren that they are—alive or dead, it stands to reason that the same would go for Plate—also alive or dead.
Leveling up is certainly what everyone wants. We saw Kaladin do it in both The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance, so going by those examples, it wouldn’t be unexpected for him to speak the next Ideal in order to somehow save their tight butts.
A: Find me one reader who didn’t expect him to say the Fourth Ideal in the next scene… But we’ll talk about that next week.
P: Anyone?
Cosmere Connections
An explosion of light appeared overhead, a ball of expanding Radiance. Something dropped from the middle of it, trailing smoke both black and white. Glowing like a star.
A: I just have to insert here how much I love this visual. It’s absolutely stunning.
P: I still require art.
A: Too bad the 10th Anniversary Leatherbound is so far away—they do the most amazing artwork for those!
As the monster raised its fist to strike Lift, the spear of light hit the creature in the head and cut straight through. It divided the enormous thing in two, sending out an explosion of black smoke. The halves of the monster fell to the sides, crashing into the stone, then burned away, evaporating into blackness.
Soldiers cursed and coughed, backing up as something resolved in the center of the tempest. A figure in the smoke, glowing white and holding a jet-black Shardblade that seemed to feed on the smoke, sucking it in, then letting it pour down beneath itself as liquid blackness.
…
Lift had seen this man before. The Assassin in White. Murderer.
And apparently savior.
P: The fact that Szeth, chilling in the sky above Thaylen Field, chatting with Nale, sees what’s happening with Lift, astounds me. But then, in the literal nick of time, he drops from the sky and uses Nightblood to CUT THE THUNDERCLAST IN HALF! I know I already scored this but again, 10/10 best Stormlight-enhanced landing. Sorry, Kaladin.
And how interesting that not only did Nightblood cut the storming thing in half, he evaporated it. Just… wut? I wants more of the Nightblood, precious…
A: Again, what a visual! Just… slide right down the middle of the walking rock like a hot knife through butter. I could be wrong about this, but I’m betting that he destroyed the spren/Fused at the same time. (Nope, I checked, and I’m not wrong. WoB confirms that this one is dead, dead, dead.)
Nightblood has some… interesting effects, doesn’t he? I just had to go back and look at some of the ways Vasher used him in Warbreaker and… well, no mere thunderclast would stand a chance against him. Flesh? Rock? Whatever, doesn’t matter. Nightblood has come to DESTROY EVIL. And yes, once he’s out of that scabbard, he turns all the things to smoke, and drinks their Investiture if they have any.
A Scrupulous Study of Spren
Mist formed into a small, glittering Shardblade.
… Or no, it was just a pole. A silver pole with a rudimentary crossguard.
Lift shrugged. “Wyndle doesn’t like hurting people.”
Doesn’t like … Dalinar blinked. What kind of world did he live in where swords didn’t like hurting people?
A: I honestly couldn’t decide whether to put this in Spren or Tight Butts—Wyndle and Lift are such a crazy comedy team! In her inimitable fashion, Lift has simply accepted that Wyndle doesn’t want to hurt people, so she’s perfectly content with a bat. Or a fork.
He advanced, slapped away Adolin’s weak attempt at a parry, and raised the sword to strike.
Someone leaped onto the Fused from behind.
A figure in tattered clothing, a scrabbling, angry woman with brown vines instead of skin and scratched-out eyes. Adolin gaped as his deadeye raked long nails across the Fused’s face….
He rammed his sword into the spren’s chest, but it didn’t faze her in the least. She just let out a screech like the one she’d made at Adolin when he’d tried to summon his Blade, and kept attacking.
A: What a shocking, unexpected moment that was!! All this time we weren’t quite sure whether she hated him for “owning” her, or if she was even more than marginally aware of him. And now, when someone is about to kill him, she Absolutely Refuses to let it happen. That’s my human! You keep your grubby sword off him! Lol. I love her so much.
P: This was truly amazing. For a dead-eye to defend her—not a Radiant but, maybe later a Radiant?—was phenomenal. All we’d seen about dead-eyes up to this point indicated that they were mindless. They were dead. And Radiants killed them. So why would this spren defend Adolin as she does? We have our hopes, but the fact that she does this is pretty significant, I think.
A: Oh, absolutely. Well, everyone knows how much I want Adolin to awaken his sword, right? But for a “mindless deadeye,” she sure shows some initiative here. I don’t see how that can not be Significant. They’re supposed to just wander the seas except when someone locks them in one place. They’re NOT supposed to attack people, much less in defense of the human who uses them. But she does, and she is angry. It seems she appreciates Adolin.
“Oh, I don’t like this,” he said.
“You don’t like nothin’.”
“Now, that is not true, mistress. I liked that nice town we passed back in Azir.”
“The one that was deserted?”
“So peaceful.”
A: Oh, poor Wyndle. As much as I love the comedy duo, I sometimes feel bad for him. At the same time… I can’t help thinking that he just might be enjoying himself more than he’ll let on, and he just likes yanking her chain.
P: I‘m sure he spends moments lamenting the loss of his chair garden, but I do think he adores Lift. As evidenced by his next quote.
“Mistress!” Wyndle said. His vines climbed over her, as if trying to cradle her. “Oh, mistress. Summon me as a sword!”
P: This is big. Wyndle doesn’t enjoy being a sword. Granted, a thunderclast isn’t a person, so he could hack at it without any moral issue, I would think, but still… this shows how worried he is for Lift.
A: I agree. I’m not sure how much he could have done, even as a sword, to protect her. I’m not entirely sure how much the thunderclast could have damaged her, either, except that I think she was pretty low on food and wouldn’t be able to keep healing much longer. But his willingness to be a sword is noteworthy anyway. I believe that, as much as he complains, he truly cares for her.
Sheer Speculation
P: Not today, Odium.
Quality Quotations
- He wasn’t sure where Syl had gone, but Pattern seemed to be enjoying himself, humming pleasantly and swinging a glass branch.
- They couldn’t hold her. She just slid away. It was like they were trying to grab hold of a song.
- “Well starve me,” Lift said. “She’s more awesome than I am.”
- How could he face something so vast, so incredible? Touching it, Dalinar could sense it stretching into infinity. Permeating the land, the people, the sky, and the stone.
- Odium has learned to possess men. A dark, dangerous day. He’d always been able to tempt them to fight for him, but sending spren to bond with them? Terrible.
And how had he managed to start a storm of his own?
Well, that was fun! In a manner of speaking, anyway. Join us in the continuing avalanche next week, as we tackle Chapter 118. More POV characters, and even more POV shifts than this week. Wheeeee! Yikes.
Alice is very much enjoying the Rhythm of War beta read, which is stirring up much … animated discussion, shall we say? She’s also seriously considering an Elantris reread once the Oathbringer reread is done, in case anyone is looking ahead.
Paige resides in New Mexico, of course, and writes in an attempt to stay sane. No, really. Imagine if she didn’t write. Yeesh. She’s fully into baseball fangirl mode as Spring Training has begun and Opening Day draws ever nearer. Go Yankees! Don’t judge. Links to her available works are provided in her profile.
Ah this chapter…
I will admit I knew before I tackled Oathbringer Adolin survived the book, so I was never afraid he would die, still, that spear… it hurt. It made my heart wrench at seeing Adolin so readily dismiss a mortal wound, refusing, even injured, to let others actually worry for him.
I actually disagree Adolin would have won against the Fused, with his knife, had it not been… a Fused. He clearly states having “died” seven times out of ten while practicing with Zahel, so he knew, even before the first parry, his chances were not great here. What Zahel’s training gave him was a chance to fight back, but the odds were stacked against him the minute he lost his weapon.
I so love Maya… Back when I read this scene, for the first time, when “someone” jumped on the back of the Fused (in the textual we start by seeing something attack the Fused before finding out who it was), I didn’t initially thought it would be Maya. I thought it was Shallan or Kaladin up until the narrative stated it was… Adolin’s dead-Blade. What a moment!
And yeah, I do think the theoretically dead-Blade, incapable of conscious thought nor acting on her own volition, jumping ahead to protect Adolin was significant. Of course, it raises the question as to whether other dead-Blades would have done the same or is it just Maya who can. Still, at this point in time, Maya has clearly made her stance clear: “Do not touch him!”. After seeing Adolin being more or less ignored by everyone else, it was great, amazing to have Maya claim propriety over her “human”. She may be dead, she may no longer have eyes, but he is *hers* and no one can hurt him. I really loved it.
I will also state this is one of the scenes which makes me dislike the popular theories wanting Adolin to fix Maya’s broken cracks out of being normal and perfect. This is just not how their relationship was built! All through this, very long, chapter, we are not reading Adolin fixing Maya, we are reading Maya reaching out to get more conscience, more agency to protect him from danger. It is the opposite! She comes back to life… for him, to protect him. Why? I guess, I hope the RoW’s narrative will tackle it, but I’d guess it might be because she actually thinks he is worth protecting. She likes him. Maybe he resembles her previous knight. Any way, my current stance is Maya has used what limited conscience and capacity of acting she does have to protect Adolin and by doing so, she has reinforce her link with him. My stance is she stretched the limit of possible, right her in Shadesmar, but by doing so, she gained the capacity to act more directly, later on, when Adolin is back in the physical realm. Just my thoughts on it.
On Renarin: Argh. This is one of the scenes which, again, makes me dislike Dalinar. I mean, I realize this is not his fault, he is not asking for it, but I so hate how his sons are both willing to trade their life for his. This. It is so wrong in so many, many ways and it shows, despite the lack of narrative time, how Renarin was affected by Dalinar’s treatment of him. To this day, he yearns for his father’s approval, he put him on a pedestal and probably think any bad treatment he got, he deserved out of failure on his own. It strikes me how much in common both brothers do have… how crippled they both are in ways which are not always obvious. So this… please Renarin, do not sacrifice your life for your father. Just. Don’t.
I think Odium choosing Dalinar as his champion here will prove a fatal mistake for both of them. I think he is locked in to having him as his Champion and Dalinar will sacrifice himself end of book 5 to give everyone else time between the next Desolation.
I think Tisark is their name for Thunderclasts. Both sentences seem to referring to the same person. “Kai-garnis did well destroying the wall; tell her to return to the city and climb toward the Oathgate. If the [Thunderclast] can’t secure it, she is to destroy the device and recover its gemstones. ”
Except both times that Kaladin “leveled up,” he had Stormlight at hand. The first time he sucked in Stormlight from the gems on the Parshendi’s beards and then exploded with power. The second time he sucked in the light from the lamps on the wall and then exploded with power.
@3 I could buy that option, but I actually take it to be the name for the flying fused. They are Tisark rather than Windrunners. So, if the [flying fused] couldn’t secure the oathgate by the time Kai-garnis gets there, then Kai-garnis should destroy it.
So a bunch to write:
First, I think it is really cool to see Shallan manifest the wall in Shadesmar. Couple that with Jasnah “creating” a “golem” of stones in her flash back, really makes me wonder all the wonderful things those radiant orders can do. I wonder if it is even possible for someone in the cognitive realm, to peek into the physical realm, like how they can from the physical realm, peak into the cognitive realm.
I too LOVE the image of Szeth dropping down, and agree I really would love an artistic rendition of that scene. I keep picturing it done in monochrome black and white. The thunder class in black falling in half. Szeth with wisps of white flowing off of him, as his face is shadowed in black. Finally nightblood a solid bar of black, with greyish black smoke flowing off of it. It would be so epic!
With the snippets of Taln and Ash we get, I cannot wait till the back 5 of the stormlight books. We have confirmation via WoB that it will focus a lot more on the heralds and we will learn so much!
I find it interesting that we see from Renarin’s perspective all the panes of glass showing everything that has already happened, is happening, and will happen, showing Renarin knew all this was going to happen for awhile now. That poor kid must feel like he is watching his loved ones die in a car crash in slow motion, and be powerless to stop it. I really cannot wait till we get to Renarin’s book, and I love his growing confidence in this book. He really is an amazing character.
I do think had Kaladin sworn the 4th ideal, he would have gotten plate, coupled with further stormlight efficiency allowing him to fight off the fused. Given Adolin’s wound is a slow one, Kaladin could have then sewn it up and they could have focused on finding another way across. But I am glad things worked out the way they did. I think it will result in greater character growth for Kaladin to learn to let others save him for a change.
Re Szeth: Szeth’s fall from the sky to take on the thunderclast was spectacularly written, but was 90% Nightblood. Okay, that’s hyperbolic, because Szeth still chose to fight the thunderclast, but he picked Nightblood instead of his own spren sword. Nightblood is an ultra-powerful sentient sword, and a character in its own right. When Nale handed Szeth the sword in WoR, I suppose it was to give Szeth a narrative reason to exist after his weird resurrection. I originally thought of Nightblood as a McGuffin, but it is really too powerful and significant in its implications to be just that.
I am not a big fan of Szeth, although Edgedancer really helped me with both Szeth and Nale. The novella helped me understand Nale, and showed a transition phase for Szeth between his Oathbringer interspective self and that earlier insane serial mass murderer who thought of his victims as things that only existed as a punishment for himself. I didn’t know about Edgedancer the first time I read the series, though, so Szeth’s changes felt sudden going from WoR to Oathbringer. Szeth rescuing Lift and their subsequent teamup does feel like a bit of a manipulation to try to get me to like Zseth, because teaming up anyone or anything with Lift is pure gold as far as I am concerned.
Re Oathgates: If Honor closed the Oathgate, could Syl have opened it? She is a teeny bit of a god. Could Cultivation? How does Cultivation fit into this whole thing, anyway. I am really confused about how much she had to do with the Knights Radiants.
Re Maya: That was a magnificent moment. I still think it was that moment that Adolin asked her what she thought about all this, and she stayed by the water instead of following him, that was a major turning point.
I would be astonished if the Ghostbloods do not have access to futuresight, one way or another.
Lift is definitely the star of this chapter.
What was with the white smoke? I don’t remember Nightblood ever making white smoke before. Is that a Skybreaker thing, maybe?
The Fused aren’t as insurmountable as we thought. WoB confirms that Nightblood can permakill a Fused spirit (Cognitive Shadow). We seem to have seen Kaladin and Syl do the same thing to a spren earlier in the book, now that I think about it. I wonder if the “concentrated dose of Sylblade” could also permakill a Fused.
Alide,iIs no one considering a Mistborn reread?
Sorry of the typo. I meant Alice!
@8 Carl
I believe the white smoke is the stormlight coming off Szeth, to contrast the black smoke sinking to the ground coming off nightblood.
Re Shallan and where she got the Stormlight: I thought she had Stormlight to open the gate, and just used that when she manifested the wall.
“Find me one reader who didn’t expect him to say the Fourth Ideal in the next scene”
Wait, you had brain space to think about the next scene? I’m in awe. My brain had already exceeded capacity. There was nothing left but the screaming.
So, does anybody else think that the bargain that Dalinar struck with Odium is epically bad? I mean:
doesn’t even include spren of Honor and Cultivation, leave alone non-human inhabitants of Roshar. And that’s if Odium indeed is bound by the spirit of this agreement, rather than by the incredibly vague letter of it, which would allow him to subjugate humans and do lots of terrible stuff to them, as long as it wasn’t fatal. Dalinar really blundered here, IMHO. It isn’t like he shouldn’t have known better, either.
Pretty sure that Ash and Taln were a couple and that he joined the Heralds for her sake, when one of the important people initially selected chose not to go through with it. Though, to be fair, I am pretty sure that the Heralds had no idea what the Oathpact would entail for them, because I can’t imagine that anybody would have agreed to include a parent and a child in their group if they had. That’s like an in-built weak link right from the start. As to how Mraize knew where Taln was – well, Iyatyl saw Amaram fetch him and from there the Ghostblood agents probably kept him under observation.
But here is another question – why was Taln alone in Amaram’s abandoned camp? Where was the supporting personal of Amaram’s army? The scribes, the engineers, the surgeons, etc? They weren’t described as being with the soldiers outside, nor did anybody see them being Thrilled and rampaging through the city, so what happened to them?!!
I remember it being argued a couple of chapters back that Jasnah had no reason to change her mind about Renarin, but IMHO what she saw when she was sneaking up on him, his being all broken up over Dalinar and later knowing and accepting her intention to kill him, actually did gave her a reason to re-think the situation. Maybe not a wholly logical reason, but it wasn’t just her fondness of Renarin that made her spare him.
I didn’t think that Dalinar would succumb to Odium, because I couldn’t see how that wouldn’t get the Radiants completely destroyed, but I did worry about Adolin in this scene, a lot. And yea, Maya’s intervention was awesome and surely a sign of things to come.
I am still no seeing how the Fused souls binding themselves to Sadeas soldiers affected them. There doesn’t seem to be any difference between merely Thrilled ones and those with extras. They all behave the same.
Lightweavers and Elsecallers probably were very highly regarded in Shadesmar – just think about all the high-quality object manifestations that they used to provide to the spren! And it is such a pity that Shallan didn’t know about this ability sooner – she could have stocked on weapons and armor beads back before they left the vicinity Kholinar, which would have helped Kaladin and Adolin a lot.
Regarding the Third Ideal of Skybreakers – so whyt happens if they swear to follow a person and the person dies? Also, does the Ideal of Crusade supercede and replace the Third Ideal? I really, really hope that Nale is wrong in his assumption that all the other Skybreakers are going to follow him in his defection to the side of the Fused and that there are some loopholes that would allow them to turn against him without either killing their spren or dissolving their bond.
It is an interesting question whether Kaladin’s shardplate could have materialised in Shadesmar – given that the windspren normally fully exist in physical realm rather than Shadesmar, it wouldn’t surprise me if it could. It does seem that he got some extra stormlight in addition to what he could infuse from nearby spheres when he swore the previous Ideals, too.
It wouldn’t make sense for Cultivation to make Lift stop growing, that is against her nature.
Wasn’t Mraize playing bodyguard for Amaram or Ialai? Of course Amaram knows where Taln is.
The .gif game was *strong* today! Thanks ladies, just what I needed on a dreary Thursday.
Omg this chapter!! So so much happens, and to say something about it all would be as long as what Paige and Alice already said… so I’ll try sticking to a couple things?
Lift has never been a favorite character for me, but almost every chapter in OB with her in it has made me like her more. I don’t think she’s likely to follow orders all the time after this, but it’s good to know that she can and will when it’s important. And I love how she and Wyndle go together. As for what she asked for from the Nightwatcher, we may not have to wait until a decade has passed to find out. At the LTUE conference a couple weeks ago Sanderson read from Lift’s RoW interlude. I won’t spoil it all (it should be up on YouTube soonish anyway) but Wyndle asks her about it and just as she was about to say… he stopped reading. So maybe answers coming about that. I just wanna know!!!
As for whether I thought Kaladin would do the 4th ideal… I thought he probably would based on the previous books, but I was hoping he would wait a bit longer just to avoid the repetition. Not that I liked seeing him unable to say it though. I hope we get it early in the next book, but I don’t want it to happen in between books.
And there’s so much more to say but I’m so out of time…. can’t wait for next week, it was SO hard to stop the audio when the chapter ended!!
Odium had to know he had lost the day as soon as Dalinar rejected him. He had already told Dalinar that Amaram wasn’t up to being the Champion.
I am completely facisnated with Nightblood and how this battle with the Fused will affect him and Zseth. I don’t think we ever saw him drawn completely from the scabbard except by the bad guys who then used him to kill everything around them. Yet here he was used by Zseth with no problem. Maybe the ThunderClast had enough evil to satisfy NightBlood’s appetite?
I’m hoping Lift ends up being Dalinar’s mini-me and stays with him in training.
Welcome back, Paige.
I like the throw-away line about the spren of the Oathgates (“If the Tisark can’t secure it, she is to destroy the device and recover its gemstones. We can rebuild it as long as the spren aren’t compromised.”). I predict that Dalinar will remember hearing Odium say this statement about the Oathgates and use that to team Honor’s advantage in Book 4 or Book 5
(As an aside, I agree with several commentators in last week’s post that Dalinar will not be alive (or at least alive in the typical human sense) at the start of the 2nd 5-book series.)
Paige said: “it seems as if Ash is the only remaining Herald who cares, or even spares a thought, about what they did to Taln by leaving him there to hold back the desolation alone.” I do not think you can apply this statement to all the other 8 Heralds. We have not seen all of them on screen (or at least the reader has enough hints to realize we are seeing a Herald). Those few we have, I could agree with that statement. But all other 8 Heralds; no way.
Paige: IMO, the reason that Lift always mentions food is that is how she gets her “awesomeness.” So that is her frame of reference.
IMO, I think Kaladin’s Fourth Ideal will be something like “It is ok if I failed to protect somebody as long as I tried my best.”
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
Alice, Paige, Lyndsey (if you are back) –
You mention being able to make suggestions for chapter titles. What about the chapter heralds? Are those pictured when you get the beta? Are they listed but no arch exists (i.e. pending artwork)? Are they chosen by the Dragonsteel people or do you have the chance to suggest (or ask for explanations)?
Thanks.
@7 Nightheron
I don’t remember any indication that Szeth had bonded a spren. No names, no visuals. The only spren-like conversations are the ones he has with Nightblood.
I’m with those who think Kaladin would have gotten his plate even in Shadesmar, based on the rare appearance of windspren in the Cognitive realm. I think the windspren crossed over because they sensed he was close to swearing the 4th Ideal. Also, when Kaladin does level up he will likely become more proficient with Adhesion–the surge of pressure and vacuum. I believe we saw an example of what Kaladin can do with this surge in chapter 31 when he and a flock(?) of windspren protected a group of people from a Highstorm:
“They surged with Light, then exploded outward in a blinding sheet, sweeping to Kaladin’s sides and parting the winds around him.”
With enough Stormlight and the assistance of windspren I believe Kaladin could deflect an arial attack by forming a kind of forcefield around those he wants to protect.
Re Shallan: Perhaps some infused gemstones from the Gemstone Reserve had fallen nearby, and she pulled that Stormlight across from the Physical Realm? Could the Oathgate spren have assisted? They were bound by oath to keep people from transporting between realms, but Stormlight is not people :)
Lift is The Best Ever at all times, but I especially like her line It was like they were trying to grab hold of a song.
In chapter 38, ‘Broken People,’ the Stormfather refers to Taln as “The one who wasn’t meant to have joined them in the first place, the one who was not a king, scholar, or general.” I think that the other 9 Heralds were leaders – influential, powerful people – but Taln was just some dude. A soldier who volunteered for an absolutely insane, possibly suicidal mission because someone had to step up and do it.
@18 in Warbreaker during the avalanche Vasher uses Nightblood and it drains his breath.
@21 & 7 Szeth is being watched by his Highspren. He swears the 3rd Ideal at the end of the battle and becomes a Skybreaker and earns his Shardblade.
@25 Gener: Thanks. For some reason I thought that because Szeth had been discussing making his Oath he had done so, and that was why he exploded with light, as characters are wont to do. Apparently it was from regular Stormlight devouring, not Leveling Up. My mistake.
Re Shallan and Stormlight. I double checked Chapter 116, and it does say she is carrying Stormlight for opening the Oathgate. She worries she is using too much on her illusions and won’t have enough left. She does NOT miraculously acquire Stormlight she does not have from some mysterious place. The weird feeling she gets seems to be the experience of manifesting, which she has not done before.
On a related note, can any Surgebinder manifest? I can’t think why not, since Ico could, and maybe Wyndle; it doesn’t seem that it would be tied to a particular order. But I’m not clear on it.
@nightheron:
At the end of this book Szeth takes the Third Oath of the Skybreakers, not the second. He took the Second Oath after the paintball fight. I assume his Highspren chose him between then and this scene. As Szeth says later in this book, his spren is hiding from him. We don’t know why, but I’m guessing it’s terrified of Nightblood.
If Skybreakers are like Windrunners, the Third Oath is the one that allows summoning one’s spren as a Shardblade. I would expect the Skybreakers to follow any rule incredibly strictly.
I’d like a scene where Szeth and Zahel meet.
@28 Marbelcal. I agree. We need the scene to be a Szeth POV so we get Nightblood’s comments as well. I assume that if Szeth sees Zahel while Szeth has Nightblood on him, then Nightblood will recognize Zahel/Vasher. He will either tell Szeth to talk to Zahel or to avoind Zahel like the plague.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
Re: Maya. I think the reason she is able to act with more agency than other Deadeyes is that Adolin always treated her differently, even before he found out that shardblades were made from a spren. If you go back to his pre-duel ritual in RoW, (before even WE found out the nature of shardblades) he was talking to his shardblade, even then treating it (her) as a partner instead of a tool.
@24 – so, Taln is basically Frodo or Sam :)
@LazerWulf, notice that Adolin has been fulfilling the second and third oaths of the Edgedancers, without knowing it, since his introduction as a character: I will remember those who have been forgotten, and I will listen to those who have been ignored.
Remember, oh, the whore in the warcamp? Because no one else did, except Adolin?
Brandon Sanderson is a very careful writer. In the next few chapters Adolin will literally listen to those who have been ignored, as he saves that little kid left behind when everyone else fled the house, because he hears the child whimper.
@32: Kaladin fulfilled his oaths before he voiced them out too… What we see with Adolin is the potential to be able to maintain those oaths, but he has not committed himself to them. In the same manner, we saw Kaladin being able to maintain his oaths before he said them and when placed in front of an oath he does know but does not want to be bind with, he does not say it.
Adolin might have acted like an Edgedancer would have acted, but it does not make him one. He said no oath, he has not agreed to walk on this journey yet.
Per the WOB linked elsewhere in the article, souls are also investiture, as is physical matter, both of which Nightblood can feed. And Nightblood apparently has been getting stronger as he feeds. He’s now pretty much the most invested thing that’s not a Shard.
Which leads to a question if Nightblood strikes a Shard…
@34
So, first thought: Could Nightblood destroy Odium? Second thought: Oh, maybe we don’t want them to, because that could be bad.
@33. Gepeto: I completely agree. I am just saying I’m sure Brandon is doing it on purpose, and implying that this is one reason Maya doesn’t resent him the way some Radiant spren don’t like humans.
@34, Chris:
Brandon is on record that Nightblood is the most Invested object in the Cosmere. That is, more Invested than the Bands of Mourning, to name one. He has also repeatedly said that if you put enough Investiture in one place (and there isn’t already intelligence there) it will start to become intelligent. I get the impression Vasher and Shashara didn’t know that–they knew a lot, but mostly about Awakening. Vasher still doesn’t seem to realize that the more Nightblood eats, the smarter it will get.
(It also implies that the Bands of Mourning are about to become sapient, maybe in the third Mistborn series.)
@36: My thoughts are watching Adolin is Shadesmar is what helped Maya deepened her bond with Adolin: she saw him act like an Edgedancer. In him, she saw someone she would have chosen for herself (it was confirmed by WoB Maya could have chosen Adolin as her knight had she been alive) and that was enough for her to want to protect him, to go beyond what she could do to save him and, by doing so, she has forged a deeper bond than usual, one which allowed her to interact for him in the physical realm. Those are my thoughts.
This being said, I do agree Brandon most likely tried to depict Adolin as an Edgedancer in the narrative in order to make the revival more fluid, more organic. I think he half succeeded. I say “half” because many readers do not see Adolin as an Edgedancer because it goes against how the character has been presented and depicted in the narrative through his third-person’s perspective. The other half buys into it.
I am going to be curious to read how Brandon handles this in RoW. My impressions are Adolin needs considerable more page time to really work as a character, but I feel Brandon is not agreeing with me here. So I am curious to see how Brandon thinks he can pull it off inside Adolin’s very limited page time and without the benefit of an inner focus like other characters. The problem with Adolin is no matter what Brandon writes, he is always working against how readers have perceived the character. I would prefer it if Brandon were to take the time to better establish the character.
@24
MS-07B-3
It’s noted in Oathbringer that Taln was the only Herald who was not supposed to have been one, and that he was not a king, general, scholar, or anyone “special” as it were. So what occupation did he hold before becoming a Herald?
Brandon Sanderson
He was a soldier and bodyguard.
personally i believe, that he was Jezriens Bodyguard and that he and Ash (as Jezriens daughter) fell in love during that time, but thats just pure speculation
@@@@@ 38 Havi
I have always thought along the same lines re: Taln becoming a Herald, but I’d posited he was Ash’s bodyguard. I suppose it makes more sense he was guarding the King, but perhaps he was more broadly guarding the King and his family. In either case, seems very likely he was in love with Ash and joined the group because of the relationship with her and maybe with Jezrien.
@36 Carl
We have WoB that the Bands of Mourning are less invested than dead shardblades. Also (mistborn spoilers below)
(when Wayne found the Bands of Mourning, they were filled, and when Wax was done with them, they were very drained. They can be re-filled again, but it looks like filled they are not invested enough to attain sapience. )
well i wouldnt call shardblades invested, since they themself are pure solidified investiture
@37: If I remember correctly, Brandon once said that Adolin was one of the characters that we hadn’t thought about before starting to write the Stormlight Archive.
This makes me think he is writing Adolin more like a discovery writer, without a fixed goal in mind, but maybe that changed from writing him back in WoK to Oathbringer.
@41 Havi
Hopefully this clarifies:
Questioner
You’ve said that Shardblades can be made in other magic systems. So if it’s not like a Shardblade from Roshar, what makes it a Shardblade?
Brandon Sanderson
The “Shard” refers to the heavy Investiture of a Shard of Adonalsium. Most of what you’ll see will see are the Roshar ones, but it is technically possible to make them out of the other magic systems. It’s going to be a heavily invested magical weapon, is kind of how I would define it.
Questioner
So are the Bands [of Mourning] one?
Brandon Sanderson
I would not call them one, but they are close. They’re not Invested enough.
Calamity Austin signing (Feb. 25, 2016)
@39 Alert! Alert! Voidspren spotted! All beware; the Desolation returns!
@42: I agree. Those were my impressions as well. I do, however, think it translates in a less cohesive and complete narrative than the ones he is writing for his other characters.
For instance, I have always felt Adolin’s character lacked definition, oscillating in between being the “perfect normal steady stoic guy who never had a struggle in his life and can handle everything in a stride” and being the “seemingly perfect guy who still has to process a less than stellar youth having grown-up with many unacknowledged issues which are holding him back”. Like, in OB, we have Adolin who’s stressed out about Sadeas’s murder and worried over Kholinar in one scene and in the next he is happily trying on new clothes while his city is about to be conquered… I have felt the two didn’t work together and lacked… cohesion as if Adolin was an unfinished character Brandon used whenever he needs a foil without taking care to make sure his narrative had continuity.
This is why I am curious to see what Brandon will do with the character in RoW now he has introduced Maya. I am not seeing him giving Adolin more page time nor a more focused narrative, but on the other hand, if he wants to write this revival arc, well, I don’t think he can achieved this within Adolin’s limited page while making it feel organic and earned. This is a problem he currently has with the character: many readers feel Adolin has not earned becoming a Radiant or read him as someone who shouldn’t become a Radiant because “badass normal” is more useful as a narrative.
RoW will thus be… interesting on this regards. As a fan of Adolin’s character, this is my number one question: “Can Brandon make him work as a character inside the constraints he has placed on him?”.
I would very much like that :)
@46 Kaboom
Totally missed that. I would very much like that too!
Chitnis @9 – Sorry for the delayed response – I meant to address this last week and got sidetracked. We’re always considering a Mistborn reread, but it’s a BIG project. The reason I chose Elantris for the next effort (and that’s not 100% solid) is that it’s relatively short, and would fit well between Oathbringer and Rhythm of War. I’m not sure I can get through it before the RoW hype starts ramping up, but It should be easy enough to cover before we’re ready to actually start rereading RoW here. It’s also possible that instead of a big Elantris reread, we’ll just do some shorter pieces from Arcanum Unbounded, and some one-off topical pieces.
My best guess for a Mistborn reread would be after Stormlight Five is out, and before Six. There will be a longer break there anyway, given Brandon’s writing schedule; also, by that time Era 2 will be complete. It seems like a logical time to launch a Mistborn Era 1 and Era 2 reread, and then we can turn back to Stormlight rereads. (Whether I’ll even be involved in the rereads by that time is another question, but we’ll play that by ear.)
I hope that answers your question!
@@@@@ 46-48
I also missed that. Elantris would be great. We’re actually doing that in book club this month, so it will be fresh on my mind.
I did a “Elantris without Hrathen” reread — was trying to get through the book quickly, so I just skipped Hrathen chapters. Was interesting, but there’s a lot of story beats you miss. Also: the Hrathen chapters are good! Don’t skip them.
Here’s one possible idea for an Elantris reread. three chapters at a time since they are designed to work in chapter triads.
Has chapter 118 been put up yet? I haven’t seen it and want to make sure nothing is wrong with my browser.
@52,
Chapter 118 has been up since Thursday morning.
The “next installment” and “previous installment” code at Tor may be broken.